00:00:09 Hey guys, how are you guys happy Friday? We’re going to give it a little bit of, we’re having some kind of technical difficulties Andrew’s in here and you’re in as a panelist. I wonder why you were not showing up as a, I mean, you were in as an attendee, but not as a panelist. That’s so weird. Yeah. I just said like,

00:00:34 I was just way I messaged Tanner on psychosis. Like, am I missing something That is so weird? I’ll have to double check to make sure. Cause you know, zoom always does these weird things that it like resets things without telling anybody. So I was like, dude, where’s Andrew. I thought he left his hanging. Oh, just let me know if there’s anything I have to do on my end.

00:00:55 I, I didn’t do anything I normally normally do. Normally works. Totally fine. So it was just weird today. Maybe it’s technical glitches with, with, with zoom today. So I think so let’s blame it on too, but Hey, he’s here. Thanks guys for being patient and not jumping off and leaving us. Hey, get, so I really appreciate,

00:01:16 I’m not going to take any more of your time. So we already lost 15 minutes of today’s hour or so right over to Andrew. So go on ahead. Yeah, absolutely. So I’m going to try to jump right in and make up some lost time since, since we’re kind of starting a little bit late today. So we have a couple of questions pre submitted.

00:01:32 Chris, if you want to jump in first talking about Tik TOK as not showing any conversions and, and the events I might be able to help you. I’m not a super Tik TOK ads specialist yet. I’m kind of trying to get there. I’m really Facebook focused, but I’m definitely willing to, you know, throw another brain into the mix and see what we can do.

00:01:52 So I’m going to promote you up here to panelists and yeah, we can, we can see if we can figure it out. Is it our work in a Chris? Okay. I think it’d be right back. No worries. So when Christian was back in, we will, we will, we’ll go over his questions. So I had one more question that was pre-submitted from Jay.

00:02:39 He pretty much just want to talk about scaling with hieros. So for those of you who don’t know what Jairus is, harrows is a third party tracking and media buying tool. So for people running Facebook, Facebook ads, tick-tock ads, Google ads, YouTube ads, there’s a lot of challenges we’re facing right now. The challenges are based around data privacy and data protection.

00:03:03 Basically people being able to opt out of tracking, which then makes it harder for us to be able to track conversions. And then when we look at our platforms like our Facebook ads platform, or we might look in our, in our ad-words platform, you know, we may not be seeing a hundred percent accurate data. So Jay, I saw the,

00:03:26 I was just about to get into scaling with, with harrows, if you would like, you know, add you to the call, we can, we can jam on it. Maybe you have some more specific questions we can do can go over. Cool. What up? How are you doing? Good, man. Cool. So we just got high rows in four G ads,

00:04:02 Facebook, all that fun stuff, got organic, got some interesting data before we start scaling with it. I’m a little hesitant to, because it’s pretty off compared to Facebook’s reporting. I guess what we’re seeing like a protocol to scale them. And then what we’re seeing is some of these ads have that are working is just like one of the ads out of the four or five in the ad set.

00:04:31 If we scale and just not pausing any other ads, Facebook’s gonna scale the ones that suck. So, and, but I’ve never really, honestly, I’ve never really scaled with just one ad in an ad set. So I’m fine to turn it off and scale it. If we think that that’ll continue to work, but I dunno wanted to, to see what a strategy is there.

00:04:51 Yeah. So it’s a couple different ways you go about it. I would say one thing to just note is that hieros will only start displaying the data from like the day it’s installed. So let’s say you install it on Monday, which basically, you know, the 25th or whatever it is, you pretty much can only look at the 25th forward to see that data should be accurate.

00:05:13 And that’s really what’s going on on the platform. And just like you said, like I see the reason why we use IROs and every single client account is because we see it being, you know, up to 60% off like misreporting reporting misattribution. One thing I always do like to just note and make sure also is that when using hieros it works the absolute best.

00:05:35 If all, you know, ad sets in ads have unique naming conventions. So if you’re using the same ad in multiple ad sets and you have this exact same name and you’re looking at that ad data, it may be also incorrect because it could basically just load all the data for one of those ads. So hypothetically, if you had an ad named,

00:05:58 you know, car ad V1 and you had a car ad V1 exists 10 times in your account, and one of those car ad has a five row as today. It could potentially report five row ads for every single ad that’s car ad V1. So I always like to double check and go look at all my ads that are running and see if there’s any duplicate naming convention.

00:06:20 So I can make sure that data is actually cleaned up because the name of the ad is what’s going to be able to connect it in the database to the right ad ID. And at least that helps with kind of like the displaying data. When it looks on the platform, the hieros platform, everything should be separated and correct. But if you’re using like the plugin to overlay the data over on top of your ads manager,

00:06:42 I always like to have unique ad sets and unique ad names. So that even it means if I take all my ads and I go a like at the end of it, I put a, B, C, D E F G a 180 2 83 or whatever it takes just to make it unique. But if you’re all good with that, then you know that you’re getting the actual accurate data.

00:07:00 You’re seeing that things are entirely off. What might be an idea is to see if there’s like one ad that’s absolutely doing the absolute best. Why is it doing the best it could be doing great because of the creative, right? Maybe the creative is probably the most important thing about an ad. So what I might do is do, do do single ad ad groups,

00:07:21 but maybe I use did not dynamic ads, which will only put one ad in that ad group, but you’ll be able to upload multiple creatives or multiple ad copies or multiple headlines at once. And it technically will dynamically rotate those to show the best performer that being said, you can also do it where maybe you have an ad set based around a specific creative.

00:07:43 So this one creative you have is working great. You create it in a dynamic ad where you only have one creative and the dynamic gang, but you could test four different headlines, maybe one of them’s the best performer you’ve found, maybe the other three, all right, new ideas you have. And it guess what if the best performer is still the best performer,

00:08:00 Facebook’s going to optimize that ad and start showing that headline as the more often, if it sees the click-through rate, being high from that headline, same thing with the ad copy. So that will be a way, Well, we, so we’re always changed that makes sure the name conventions are specific and we’re only running data from when we started it. What we see is that like for our stuff is so finicky that if we see if we,

00:08:28 this one ad that’s working and we go change it to dynamic, even just the same audience, everything else like that, it’ll just not work as well as working on this currently. It’s just so finicky. It’s like this ad does great with this audience in here. And then sometimes even when I do it, it doesn’t do as well dynamic or anything like that.

00:08:47 So we’re just trying to see if we should just turn, pause all the other ads in that ad set and scale this currently one that’s according to, With the ad that’s working really well, according to hieros, have you ever ran that as a, as a post ID or do you normally just run the one version of it? Yeah, it’s all,

00:09:05 it’s all post IDs. It’s pretty much Still what I would do is like, honestly, like when you have a winning ad like that, basically I wouldn’t be too afraid to kind of like double down, triple down on it. And even if that means you pretty much have, you know, that one best performing ad in a single ad set, it should be okay.

00:09:26 As long as the audience is big enough. So I would continue to use that post ID, as long as you’re still getting results for it. Don’t be afraid to like, kind of like overuse it. If it’s getting your results, it should continue to get your results. The end of the day, like most of the best campaigns I’ve run have been based around one or two ad creatives.

00:09:44 But what I would really do is focus on, you know, what is it about this ad that is working in Hearos descends and then, you know, think about going and making w how can we improve this and make the next version of that. But until then, you know, if you found one that works, you can kind of grip it and rip it and use that post ID and test it all over your remarketing audiences tested all over your different cold traffic audiences,

00:10:05 and don’t be afraid to really, really lean into it. I was, you know, I’ve had, you know, accounts in the past spending $5,000 a day, but the majority of it on one creative, you just get it to the point where you just gotta keep, you know, getting bigger audiences to keep the, the life extension of it.

00:10:22 Is that one ad that’s working just one ad in an ad set, or is it still, you’re still have like a few in there and just scaling it? It’s, it’s exactly what you’re talking about. Like, if I only put one ad in it, it’s gonna show pretty much all the budget of that. If I put three ads in it,

00:10:36 it’s going to put 75 or more percent of the budget to that one ad anyway, because then the day it’s a robot with artificial intelligence and you’re telling it, go get me sales. And it only, if it’s going to try to do what you want. And if that means it’s going to show only one ad, then that’s what it’s going to do,

00:10:52 because that’s what it’s trained to do. So you can’t say go get me sales, but also split up the ad, spend across these ads in the less you break out each one of those creatives in the individual ad sets. So that’s why there’s ad set budgets. If you wanted to like split your budget in three, have three ad sets with each different creative,

00:11:10 that way. It’s not going to funnel all of that spend into one ad, but that is just a natural kind of flaw with the Facebook platform is that once it determines a winner, it’s very hard to not like, let that anything else compete with it unless you segmented out on purpose. So we shouldn’t have any problem just pausing these other ads and scaling this.

00:11:29 Yup. Yup. Yep. Just, you know, the audience sizes are pretty good. You’re targeting a million people, you know, sometimes it takes 20 touch points to get someone to, to convert. So what I would do is, you know, focused on scaling that even if it’s only one ad, you should be fine to start scaling that for,

00:11:48 for an, you know, at least a week, a couple of weeks are thinking about what the next creative you want to test. And whenever you’re testing creative, test it like in a separate ecosystem, then this ad like this is now your ad you use for scaling and you’re using this ad to generate money and you’re going to take some of that jet profit.

00:12:04 And you’re going to use that to the test, hopefully the next creative. So you can have multiple hero ads. That’s the dream, because then if you have multiple hero ads and you can put them both in a ad set and it will probably evenly disperse them or some days go more to one than the other, but at the end of the day,

00:12:18 if we only have one, then, then that’s what we got. So I would really focus on, you know, that scaling that and then focused on retargeting. Now that you’re getting some, you’re gonna be able to get a good amount of hopefully results in traffic from that one ad. So start focusing on building out some middle of funnel and bottom of funnel so that,

00:12:37 you know, you can actually, you know, make some extra money off of that and you don’t necessarily need to have that hero ad be the remarketing creative. If this is people who visit the site or people add to cart, you can get away with some static images, some really beautiful product shots, something like that. That should have a higher conversion rate because of the audience.

00:12:53 The audience is going to be someone who almost bought, but didn’t buy. So use that like video asset as your like prospecting asset. And then you can test the other creatives you have that aren’t maybe working quite as well, throw those maybe in your middle, middle of funnel ads. And those could be people who have, you know, engaged with the posts,

00:13:11 people who have watched 75% of your hero ad or potentially people who visited your site and never completed a purchase. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For some reason I retargeting sucking lately. Cool. All right, man. No problem. And yeah, good luck with arrows. I use it every single day. So I think you’re going to find a lot of value from it and just,

00:13:33 you know, even see turning it on how illuminating it can be, how different the data can be. Okay. Chris, promote you up and we’ll, we’ll jump in. Hey, how’s it going, man? It’s been a While doing good, man. How are you Doing good. Doing really good. I was messing with some, a Tik TOK ads and one to see if I could get your insight on it.

00:14:07 I got conversions. It took me forever to get it, to work with ClickFunnels, but finally I got it and it was showing me a little bit of love, but I posted in the group and dude, I forgive me. It’s Andrew. And I got to write down your name because I always mean to tag you in the, in the group.

00:14:27 I might not even be in it, man. I might be, I might be off the track. I’m not on Facebook, a ton other than running ads, to be honest. Hey, that’s a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. I deal with so much of my day-to-day but yeah, you could also add it. That being said, if you want to add me on Facebook and Facebook message me like I’ll,

00:14:44 I will get that directly to my phone or something. So if you have a question or, or, or get stuck with something, you can always, you can always send me a loom video or something. I can get to it whenever I, whenever I can. Yeah, I appreciate it, man. Got these ads turned off. Oh it’s because it says active.

00:15:01 I’ll just do all, We’re both kind of learning, you know, tick talk as together. I’m really been diving into it head first, the last few, few weeks. Yeah. It’s let me just change this as well. I’m just going to go lifetime. So the one that I actually got conversions on was a webinar and I think I had automatic targeting on this one.

00:15:30 Yep. And, and it was starting to get in the first day was crap. The second day I got two leads, then it didn’t it. Then it just kept on spending money and I kind of voiced it out and I shut it off. And I didn’t know if like maybe I probably needed to just man up and let it spend a little bit more and learn.

00:15:53 But I just didn’t know if we could maybe take a look and see what you’re thinking here. So then of the day I’m still kind of learning too. What’s the natural cadence for tick-tock optimizations. How long does it take a little bit of knowing where they kind of make you start with like larger budgets? Like a campaign budget has to be at least 50 and it adds up,

00:16:10 it has to be at least 20, which, you know, if you’re just testing something out, it’s a little bit annoying, but, but yeah. So the one thing I do see that I love is that our, your CPM is only $4 and 28 cents. It would probably be closer, you know, $20 if were on Facebook. So the traffic you are getting is four X cheaper.

00:16:27 It’s just figuring out either how to get the pixel to, you know, learn. One thing I’ve learned is that this will make sense to you hopefully is that, you know, when you send, let’s say you have a funnel, a ClickFunnels funnel, and let’s say you’re sending 5 million clicks a day from Facebook or from organic or whatever way it is.

00:16:47 If even if you have a Tik TOK pixel on there, it won’t like read that data unless they come from Tech-Talk, which is very annoying because the Facebook pixel collects all the traffic, no matter what. So basically the only way your pixel is optimizing is from these clicks that it’s actually getting to the pixel. So even if this webinar funnel has had a thousand clicks a day from other sources,

00:17:10 it doesn’t mean it’s getting a thousand clicks worth of data. It’s really only had 168 clicks worth of data altogether to optimize. So it very well potentially could be something that needs more time, or it could be something that could be maybe if the creative was a little bit, maybe it could be a creative issue too. Like maybe if the creative was better than maybe we would have had twice as many leads,

00:17:32 then maybe it wouldn’t have been an issue. So it was just kind of diagnosing that. So maybe let’s look at the ads and see if there’s anything like crazy. Like it’s hard to judge it other than the way we would judge a Facebook ad. But I know like what I’ve seen, like the creative and Tik TOK is like, absolutely the more important than even it is on Facebook.

00:17:53 So let’s take a look at what we got. It might not even show us a preview. This is one of the things I hate Music artist. In 2019, we got 4.2 million streams on our Spotify app as the artist. Then in 2020, we got up to 16 million streams on Spotify that, and then last year in 2021, we got up to 23 million streams and this is without a label and without Cool.

00:18:24 Oh, I see. I kind of just cut it. I didn’t even invite them to the webinar. Okay. Is that So I would say, you know, that could be a part of it. And I would also say that like maybe try some more versions of it. Maybe it could be a little bit more like if like the content, everything you said was awesome.

00:18:43 I would say the packaging, like if you could like come into it and, you know, talk about how you’ve discovered the secret of how independent artists like me as an independent artist was able to get this. And I want to show you how to do it today. Like more, just kind of like in, in enticing, you went over a lot of stats and a lot of stuff,

00:19:02 but like the ideal Tik TOK is like 15 seconds. So, so if you could like kind of keep it to that 15 seconds, maybe go max, like 20 seconds, 25 seconds to get everything you need to get out and maybe it’s even condensing it to make it a little bit more like inspire a little bit more curiosity. Like what’s the most absolutely impressive thing out of all of that.

00:19:24 And just say, you found a way to do it with, without this and this and this. And I want to teach you exactly how to do it today. So click the link or whatever that might be all you need. And you might be able to even put some words that pop up, like make it feel like a tick talk, like make it actually,

00:19:42 what you can do is like film it, upload it to Tech-Talk do all the cool Tik, TOK fun stuff, and then export it, intake talking to your phone and then send it to your computer and upload it as the ad. So you actually like make the tick tock tick tock. What you can do is you can say like privacy and you can set it to only me.

00:20:01 So it doesn’t actually go out on your tick dock account. And then you can ex build it in tick dock and all the silly tick-tock stuff to make it seem like it’s a, it’s a real tick talk and then export it out. Because if people are feeling like it is super real and native to the platform, you’re going to get higher watch rates,

00:20:18 which is going to just improve overall. I think this is great. Like all the content you said and everything was great, but I think we just need to condense it, make it a little bit punchier, add lean in with like a marketing hook. Like those were our hooks where like, what if I told you you could do this and this and this,

00:20:34 like that could be a type of form. It’s like, guys, I gotta show you this. This is what was my Spotify listeners. Then this is my Spotify listeners. Now I’ve found this trick that doesn’t even cost any money or blah, blah, blah, whatever it is flow. And just it be like that something that could be super quickly consumed and really inspire like,

00:20:51 oh, I’ve got to learn what this guy’s talking about. And I think that will absolutely absolutely crushed and that will help a ton with those click-through rates and, and those view rates and everything. Okay. Okay. I’m going to do that right now, man. I’m going to freaking film it and get it going and do it cause yeah, that I can’t even believe.

00:21:08 I, I, I think I just tested this to see if it would work. And then I, That goes to show out powerful, take DACA. As ads is concerned, you got two conversions without even really knowing what you were doing. So I’m trying to lean more into, into Tik TOK as things go on because it’s still, it’s still in its infancy,

00:21:27 right? The platform is very clunky. Oh, it’s cheesy. If you can dial it, man, it’s kind of like someone was saying, it’s like 2010 with Facebook, you know, as far as how cheap the traffic is, right? Yup. Yup. It is. The only thing is like, you have to make all the, you gear.

00:21:46 If your ads feel like ads, you’re not, it’s not going to work. Period. The ads have to feel like an organic tick talk. So even if you do some of like the silly tech talk trends, like they do these ones, like, like we’ve done ones where it’s like, there’s like two choices and then you walk in one direction or the other,

00:22:03 like picking what your choice would be. And it could be like paying for fake followers or the manifest method, like paying for streams or this like getting bots to stream your music. Like you could even be like fun and playful. And like the tick-tock formats are that you can make them all in tick-tock and you honestly don’t need anything really other than your phone to do this because you can use it.

00:22:26 You honestly want to build it in the Tik talk app. That’s going to make it feel real. It should be all like done, not using final cut, not using any type of advanced editing software. And don’t try to do too much. If things look super high budget, they don’t feel like a tick talk and it’s like, you’re going against the naitivity of the platform.

00:22:46 Right? So like, honestly, like I would be doing testing a handful of things a day and uploading those into your ads. And eventually then you’re going to have your creative getting on point, feeling more data to the platform. And then by then you’re probably have your pixel starting to learn at the same time. And that’s when you’re gonna be taken off.

00:23:05 So I would say if it was me, I’d probably just like try to force myself to film, like spend an hour on Tik TOK, come up with an idea, film it real quick, edit it and try to do like maybe one of those a day, something new to test a day, spend an hour. And I think quickly you’ll realize once you get into the swing of it,

00:23:23 you’ll start getting the hang of it and seeing which ones are working, which ones are. And it’s great. It’s actually easier than Facebook because everyone who wants a Facebook ad want something super high budget. Like, like that’s why the music videos were good. But if you just put a clip of your music video on talk, it’d be very okay. Probably average results,

00:23:43 but show, I did try one, just show you this because it was music. Cause I was, again, I feel like I’m, I, I don’t want to overwhelm myself and I try too many things, but I did try this for music. Cause I went and looked. What was cool is, is it even showed you what the top performing ads are?

00:24:10 Right. And so that gave me an idea. So I did this three layer thing. See what you think of this? I don’t know. I didn’t even check. We can take a look at the data here is mold too, but I didn’t want to let it run too long. Cause again, I was just, I didn’t want to, it didn’t even spend much money and this is the one I thought would be cool,

00:24:31 but They’re spending all the other ones. Yeah. I didn’t even, I thought Yup. So what I would do is have one, one of the video, like, you know, crop it to where it’s like your, the full screen. So the entire screen is just focused on the center frame of the video and then add text overlays on Tik TOK.

00:25:01 That’s like, you know, for fans of, of Lincoln park, get my four albums for free or whatever, whatever it is and make it intake talk. So like get the video, uploaded to tic talk and then reexport it and then run that as the tick-tock ad, I would always try to like, have it be full, full frame and then use the tick talk,

00:25:22 writing over the top of it. Cause that’s just going to make people, like I said, like this doesn’t necessarily feel super native to the Tik TOK platform. It feels like an ad, doesn’t it? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But then you can see I’m sure the click through rates, weren’t probably incredible on these. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s why the Renegade one didn’t spend was because it showed the 400 people.

00:25:49 Only one person showed interest. And the other one at least, you know, was, was the conversion rate was it was double. But even then like when I run ads that look like tick talks, we can get, we can get 2% click through rates. If they, if it looks, it feels like a tick talk. So what I do,

00:26:04 which is probably your, honestly that one of your best bets, if you want to play it safe is when you make all these assets actually upload them to your Tik TOK account and see which ones get the best reactions and views and interactions. You don’t have the drive them to a link. You can just post it as a piece of content. And if it works really well,

00:26:23 you can remake it as it to be your ad and change a little bit of messaging and add a link. But I upload, we try to upload, you know, a handful of tick talks a day first as tests, and then whichever ones get the best reactions. That’s when we go bring them into ads manager. Okay. I need to make sure I have it for my cause.

00:26:45 I’ve been using like obviously I have my music account, but then I want to have my smart music business, my more training account. Right. And I think I’ve only been uploaded into my, my main one. Yeah. You going to apply them to your main one? Like the end of the day tick-tock isn’t like Instagram where it’s like, you know,

00:27:04 the content you post like truly matters as far as like, if you, if you post too much on Instagram that the algorithm like shadow bands, you and stuff like you could upload 10 tick talks today. And the ones that were the best are going to get are going to go crush. And the ones that don’t get a good reaction are just going to chill.

00:27:21 And if you go delete those tick docks, it’s not gonna affect you in any way. It’ll just, the algorithm will immediately identify which one of these are doing well. And it goes real quick and you like, I can post five different variations of a video. And whichever one is the most enticing for the first few seconds that gets that watch time up and gets that those reactions,

00:27:44 those ones are going to get thousands of views and the other ones are going to get a hundred. And after a couple hours, I’ll be able to tell that’s the one I can delete all of them and then just go upload that one as a bad. Okay. Okay. I’m going to get to work, man. And good luck and hope you can’t wait to see kind how,

00:28:02 how it all shapes out. And like, you know, if I learn anything else about Tik TOK ads since, until next call. Yeah. I’m excited, man. Well, have a great weekend And two minutes. Cool. So Christie, if you were making interim rails, would you say try using them on Tik TOK? Yeah, I would.

00:28:21 What I do is the opposite. I don’t think it really matters, but what happens is whenever I put something on Instagram and when you export it after it’s an Instagram real, it kind of like puts the Instagram logo in the corner. And then to import that into take doc, I feel like it’s just like kind of like competing where it’s like the Instagram logo and the Tik TOK logo would then be going on while Tik TOK only puts its own logo on it.

00:28:51 So like, let’s say you took your tic talk, you made it in Tik TOK first and it works well, then I would export it and then upload that to my Instagram real, because that would save it from adding two different logos to the video, which just kind of like makes it kind of looks weird sometime. Does that make sense? But yes,

00:29:13 if anything’s working on one or the other, I try to do them on both. I always just do Tik TOK first, just for that reason, if it’s like a video that you have on your phone, that’s not been uploaded to either yet. Then you could just upload them to both. But what I like to do is make them in tic talk because if I make them in Tik TOK and I used the tic TAC talk formatting and has the Tik TOK logo that bounces around on the Tik TOK.

00:29:36 And it also has the Tik talk, writing that like it’s pretty generic writing, but it just the look and feel and brand of tick talks, you know, it’s a Tiktaalik if they have this certain font and colors and stuff, when you do all the, the editing on the video, uploading that to Instagram, I find that like people on Instagram love take talks.

00:29:55 So it was a Tik TOK first. And then you upload it to a real, it’s gonna do really, really well. And Instagram doesn’t care if it has a Tik TOK logo and stuff like that, they just want people on their platform. And at the end of the day, people are on their platform watching take dot content, but on their platforms.

00:30:11 So they okay with it. Cool. Cool. Did we got a bunch of people, Kim and Kristen Kristy and Bianca. Did anybody else have any questions for me while we had a little bit of time left? I know we started super late, so I want to make sure everyone had, if they had a question or something that was burning or something they need help with that I can make sure that I can jump in and help you guys if there was something you were stuck on.

00:30:43 Yeah, absolutely. Cool. Cool. Cool. Okay. And then Kim will Joe I’ll, I’ll bring you on right after. Cool. Cool. Okay. Can we, yeah, we’ll do we’ll. We’ll we’ll get through these. Hey, how’s it going? Good. How are you? Okay, so I think that about a month ago you warned that they were going to make the changes and start as far as like targeting goals that they were going to like remove autism and like a bunch of the different things.

00:31:39 So I noticed that those changes are live. And so I was just wondering if you had any suggestions as for like, so I used to do, because some of the things are really large. So if I do like autism orderness is still around. Cool. But autism organise is absolutely massive. And then if I do other audiences, like very specific ones,

00:32:00 like special education or like, like special education teachers and then like speech pathologists or any things that like are really pretty granular. My audiences are really small. I just do those. So in the past I would do like something like autism awareness and then I would do it like, and then also must do special education. And so that’s kind of like,

00:32:26 and so then that would give me like decent size audiences with that. Like, and I would know that they were like my people, but I noticed today that they removed special education. They still bought to some more in us, but they, they removed like obstacle speaks. They a bunch of the ones that I was using. So I wasn’t sure if you had any like ideas or So sometimes what I do is,

00:32:48 you know, trying to think of other ways I can focus in on the demographic. Have you tried like the autism awareness and then just adding in like narrowing it by just people who are parents and you could also do it by like parents of certain aged kids. So it’d be like parents age zero to three or three to seven or seven to 14. So you could add all those different parent groups that like fit your demographic.

00:33:11 And potentially just with that in autism awareness, it might be enough people that it will eventually, it will find the people who identify the ones clicking and you know, there’ll be people there that could be a great way to start because your pixel already does have some understanding of who your target audience is because you’ve been running ads for a little while. So that’d be something to test in the short term,

00:33:33 you know, it is going to be a broader audience. So we just fill out the test and see, see how it looks. But it should be also like a little bit cheaper though, because it is a bigger audience and it is a little bit less defined. So it may balance out that like, Hey, if it doesn’t work quite as well,

00:33:49 as far as the results standpoint, it might be cheaper. And so it might balance out and you might not even notice much, it could be the potential of the same TPA. The second thing I would say is something you can look into is let me crab a link real quick for you guys. Or I can just show you and share my screen real quick.

00:34:09 Let me go up the link first. So there, this is a software that my team has used in the past, and everyone can potentially gain value from this. You do have to pay for it. They do let you use it for a free trial, which I think is like, you don’t even have to add your credit card to get the free trial,

00:34:26 but basically when your trial is over, they will essentially just like cut, cut off your access to it. So here’s how it kind of works is it’s called lead in force. And basically it allows you to scrape competitive analysis and, and profiles and things like that for Facebook audiences. So let me see if I can log in real quick and let’s see if I can do a quick example.

00:34:56 So what this allows me to do is the way we use it mostly is to find audiences for Facebook that we can use to target directly and to build lookalike audiences off of. So the main reason that this is powerful is because Facebook doesn’t have a way you can target Facebook groups. So the main reason we use it is we can analyze Facebook groups, pages,

00:35:20 posts, and profiles. So like, let’s say we could find a bunch of Facebook groups that were all about maybe like groups with people who are parents with autism, right. Kids with autism, they might be in these groups and there could be these support groups with lots of people or the huge support groups. Yeah. So you get the list of all of those,

00:35:38 right. And you can call this like, you know, right, right. And then what you would do is you would go in and you would add in all the URLs of those audiences and these sources. So you’d put in the links to directly those groups. And what we’ll do is the more you can do the better because basically they scraped the group and they try to match those profiles with the,

00:36:04 the group, with people in the profiles. And then basically you can have this, send that audience directly to your Facebook audience manager. Then what you can do is you can target those people directly and you could build a lookalike audiences off of them, which is going to be a really powerful too, because let’s even say you got a hundred thousand people in that,

00:36:26 from all those groups, the actual matching to that might be like 20,000, that, that they can actually match up just because they’re trying to like, see, who’s opted out of track and all the, all the nonsense. So you could also, if you could find like insert, if there’s like Instagram accounts of like same type of thing, support groups or things that only a parent with a child with autism or something like that might follow,

00:36:50 you could also add in that. And there’s some other ways you can do it, but basically you do it and we’ll take a little bit to load. You can go look at the audience, you can see the size of it, and then you can import it directly into your Facebook ads account. And then you can start using it as you wish.

00:37:05 And you can do this for any, anyone with a niche in this group could be a great resource. So for example, we had someone who was selling a program, built around the keto diet. So I went around and found groups about keto diet, beginners groups, and support groups for people doing the keto diet. Same thing about some of these,

00:37:24 like this is an anti-aging based audience for someone selling an anti-aging supplement. This is one for female financial advisors that we use Facebook audiences for. And this is one for like a therapy kind of like coaching. So when we were on top of it too, to where, like we can’t use some of these audiences, for example, like targeting people who are therapists potentially anymore,

00:37:45 but we can use these Facebook groups that have 6,000 people, 6,000 people might be too small to run ads directly to them. At least not with a very small budget for you. If you’re going to be operating with a small budget, maybe, you know, five, $10 a day, you could run directly to that audience. And maybe it would work really,

00:38:02 really well. But on top of that, you could build that 1% look alike audience, which you would take these 6,600 people and analyze all their data and build an audience of like 2 million people that are within a one percentile of them and test running traffic there for that test or running up there. Okay. Yeah. I haven’t done much for, with liberal lakes.

00:38:22 So I guess I can give that a little bit of a go. And then how big would you say the audiences should be The bigger, the better that’s really the thing I’d say like anything under a thousand is not worth it. And then anything above like 1,001. Absolutely. The bigger, the better I like to see, like several thousand is like,

00:38:45 okay, this is worth it. Just because the more data like this one, a 480,000 people, that’s just like so much data. They can go off of to find a target audience for a lookalike. And then also I can run ads directly to these people knowing that they’re in a group about the keto diet. So I’m probably going to have a good,

00:39:03 a good enough time selling keto diet supplements, or keto diet products to them. So it’s a good enough size audience, maybe at 500 K I might be able to run a hundred dollars a day budget to this audience and see if it converts. But it’s also a good way to say, like, if your ads aren’t converting to this audience, then maybe it’s like,

00:39:20 when you do a real lot better job on our ads, because this is a pretty specific audience, so it should work. So if it’s not working, then maybe there’s something wrong with something we’re missing and they actual marketing. Okay. And then how much is Tyrus? Hi, rose starts at, I believe $300 a month during the $50 a month.

00:39:41 I really recommend it whenever you are at a point where you are really like really looking to scale and be on top of your ads manager, like a lot, like when you’re really like spending lots of money and you want to make sure you are in full control over the money you’re spending is when I recommend turning that, that on. And you’re looking into a solution like that.

00:40:05 Yeah. Well where, like I used to spend more, but like, since all the budgets, I mean, since everything’s kind of gone crazy since like April, I had to, you know, kind of cut back spending. So we spend about like two 50 a day right now where we used to spend like about a thousand a day. Yeah.

00:40:23 So, I mean, I’ll show you a quick, super quick example where everyone can see. So I’m just going to look at all the data. This is, this is all the data I have for here. So here’s our Facebook results. I don’t even know. We’ll see how accurate it is. It’s it’s you never know until you get in there sometimes.

00:40:43 So let’s say Facebook says we have a hundred, a hundred sales at a seven $79 CPA, $70 CPA. And then I’m going to bring them a high-risk data, which shows we actually have 86. And at 1.3 return on ad spend while Facebook thinks we have a 1.5 return on ad spend. So, I mean, that’s the difference of a few thousand dollars.

00:41:03 If I add in my columns and say, you know, also I want my revenue revenue. So let’s say what the actual impact on your ads account is, is if you’re looking at your Facebook data, you think you’re making $11,000 when you’re actually making 9,300. So that’s the difference when you’re running hieros if you think about this over the course of 30 days,

00:41:27 or of course of just this month so far, let’s just see what this month is. So this month says we made 10 K on Facebook, but we’ve actually made nine K. So we’re about $1,400 off. So if I was making decisions about which ads are working, which ads are not working, I could be making the wrong decisions based off this.

00:41:46 So if we look at our individual ads and we just sort by amount spent, we can kind of see that, like, for example, this ad, we spent $1,700 on just this one ad and it thought it made 1.1 ROAS. So $1,900, but Facebook thinks it made $2,000. So I pause this ad, even though Facebook says, oh, you’re crushing it.

00:42:13 I know that I’m actually not. And then same thing with all the ones I can see. There are reversed too. So for example, this one says that 0.8, seven when it’s actually a one. So this is actually more profitable than what Facebook says. This one’s a little bit less, this one’s a little bit more right here. Like I should,

00:42:32 I might turn this off if I didn’t have high-risk for example. So that’s why it’s really powerful. Some of these ads down here, you know, reporting super high ROAS. So I might be like, well, you know, some of these ones like this one, even though Facebook says to, you know, point to 0.2, these ones are saying no sales at all,

00:42:56 but we can see the row ass on them. Right? So these ones are saying, there’s absolutely no sales. And we can clearly see that they actually do have sales. So that’s why Harris is powerful because Facebook is basically doing its best with the data it can get, but it’s missing a lot of data, But what, how do you like,

00:43:11 so like in the past, like Facebook would have like, started taking that one with the 5.19 or the 3.08 and like they would have started giving it more money right. To spend. But now they’re not. Yeah. So on top of that, they’re spending money on things that they think are working well, when they’re not, and now I can be like,

00:43:29 no, no, no, no, Facebook, you stop. And Facebook’s like, all right, if you want me to keep running traffic to this one that has no sales, but I know that like, yes, that’s a decision I do want to make. And then also like the, the, the, the big thing is that Facebook is basically missing sales and attributing sales wrong is the biggest problem.

00:43:51 So I knowing actually, which ad sets are working and which creatives working, if you have five ad sets and, you know, the data is this off between your ad sets, it’s even like kind of a bigger problem than when it is just on your ads. Like if you’re, you know, spending a hundred dollars a day on this audience, and it has a 1.3

00:44:10 instead of a 1.6 and you’re spending $50 a day on this one, and you think it has 1.8, but actually has a two. You may want to completely flip that budget, right. And spend your money more effectively that way to that audience or to that, to that creative, whichever it is. So basically Facebook will never, Facebook used to have a hundred percent accurate data,

00:44:30 so we could just trust it. And we can’t trust it anymore because of this. So How do they get it? A lot of times right now they can get it from server-side conversions. If you set it up that way, or potentially it could come in on a three-day delay. And even then if it comes in on a three-day delay, if they don’t,

00:44:53 if they lose the customer at some point in the tracking journey, then they kind of guess, and that’s why you see things that are profitable than others, because that sales should have gone here, but they put it here because they don’t know. And they’re just like using what they call statistical modeling to try and figure out where it goes. And they’re just doing the best they think they can,

00:45:15 but hieros illuminates the problem and then allows us to find like, have the correct data so that we can optimize correctly on the things that are actually working. Okay. Okay. That makes sense. Cool. Cool, cool, cool. Awesome. No problem. No problem. Cool. And then Kim, I wanted to make sure I got to answer your question.

00:45:50 Okay, cool. You’re in here twice. So hopefully I pick the right one. Let’s try that. Okay. Hey, Andrew. I’m doing pretty good long time. I’m glad to, I, I got a chance to jump on a call, I guess a couple of weeks back when you were saying you had COVID so I’m glad you’re okay. Yeah,

00:46:17 yeah, yeah. I likewise had it too. And couldn’t fly. I was supposed to travel like two days before I got the test and they were like, you can’t go anywhere. Yeah. Yeah. So interestingly enough, you, you probably already know this is, this Facebook has eliminated a lot of interest. And so, you know, any interests that relate to political,

00:46:39 religious race and all that kind of stuff. And so, because my market is focused on Muslim women, a lot of the targeting, the detailed targeting that I would use would be stuff related to like hate job, which is a headscarf or a Muslim or modest fashion, or which I think is still there, or things like masjid or Islam or things like that.

00:47:02 So all of those detailed targeting options now are gone. They are gone. And the ads that I were running with them, they were doing pretty well. And, but I have to shut them off because you know, the detailed targeting is not there anymore. So what I’ve done is I’ve kind of gone out on a whim and I’ve started to kind of experiment with detailed targeting.

00:47:24 That’s sort of tangentially related to my target market. So things like Starbucks and, and like Safara, and like, you know, makeup, beauty kind of things that people like. And I plan to do that eventually, but I was still had liked my kind of core detailed targeting, but I guess what I’m looking for is kind of like guidance, like what are people doing around these changes?

00:47:45 Cause I can’t be the only one that’s affected by this, but it has wiped out all of mine. Yeah. Yeah. So, so it’s all super new. It’s all very, very new. So I, I haven’t gotten too much feedback yet. Another thing I always like to do is, is kind of what you were talking about is like,

00:48:08 not necessarily like go after the direct target market, but go in a roundabout way. So if there is like maybe like some type of influencers or people who are really big in the Muslim community who are not a political figure maybe, or maybe it could be some type of celebrity or something could be something you could try. Cause those detailed targeting could still be there.

00:48:31 If there’s any types of like, you know, newspapers, magazines, websites, or anything like that that might be associated with like artists really highly consumed that might still be there. It’s our thinking about that. And then potentially, you know, lead in for us could be another thing you could potentially try at some point. And the, the, what I was showing earlier in the call where if there is Facebook groups or Instagram accounts that are like predominantly followed.

00:48:59 So for example, you can scrape Instagram accounts. So if there is like other fashion brands that do exactly what you’re doing, you could take care of Instagram accounts, you could plug them into lead in for us. I put the link right here in the, in the chat here. And basically I would just watch like, you know, they have a little bit of tutorials,

00:49:19 but it’s pretty straight forward. You can scrape Instagram accounts, you can scrape Facebook groups, you can scrape Facebook profiles and Facebook pages. So you can say like, you know, here’s a list of 10 groups on Facebook. That’s about, you know, Muslim fashion, Muslim culture, Muslim women, anything like that, at least giving a starting point.

00:49:43 And what you can do is you can take that audience and you can run ads directly to them, or you can create lookalike audiences off of those and run to that. And that kind of allows you to figure out the right people without necessarily having to use the interest groups. Okay. Yeah. And that’s interesting that Kristy mentioned her lookalikes because the lookalikes that I’ve been doing have not been going well.

00:50:03 I did a look alike of my Klayvio purchases over 500. Like my VIP, The reason why it could be is just because it’s not enough data, right? You need for lookalike to be powerful. Like I said, you probably want the more, the better, but several, several thousand people. So like, let’s say we got like 500,000 find a way to get like 500,000,

00:50:26 you know, Muslim women in a lookalike, in a, in a custom audience, which could be from Instagram accounts. It could be Instagram accounts, Facebook groups, Facebook pages, things like that. Not only can you use that audience and run ads directly to it as if that was your intro detailed targeting interests, but you can ultimately create a lookalike off that.

00:50:44 And when it has 500,000 people all sharing something in common, then it can, it’s so much easier for it to go find who should go in this lookalike audience, because it’s so much more data because it’s not about the big things they have in common. It’s about the little things. It’s about the granular things, how much money they are. They also take into account like how much money they make,

00:51:04 what’s their browsing history and all that. So when you have a small dataset, it’s hard to make a big dataset, but when you have a pretty big data set, it’s a lot easier to make a stronger, a stronger data set off. So just always be looking like audiences. You may have to just make it be like a lookalike audience. That could be a great one to start,

00:51:22 could be all your site visitors over the last 180 days, because if someone’s visited your site, that means they probably clicked an ad or they have some interest in the product. You could create, look like that. And over the last 180 days, maybe do have several thousand website visitors or people who visited organically. It could be people who visited from any other location,

00:51:44 any other way, other than Facebook ads as well. And that could be a place to start where that data set could be pretty big as well. What’s the name of this? You said lead in force. I don’t see the link. I’ll let me, let me see if I can rephrase it in here. Yeah. I’ll lead in four-star com okay.

00:52:03 Yep. Got it. Okay. Yeah. So one of the, interestingly enough, one of the, the tangential targeting options that I have is this combination of Starbucks and headscarf. So headscarf is still there. That is not, you know, related to any particular religion. It’s just a headscarf. Although I think a lot of us in the modest fashion space have been using it because it kind of relates to like the hijab that we call it.

00:52:28 So I combined Starbucks and headscarf, and I’ve been getting purchases I’m a little bit higher than my target CPA. So my target CPA is $40, but they’d been, I began, there’d be like 50 bucks, but they’d be coming in. And I’m like, this is interesting. And it’s not anything related to directly related to it. But It just goes to show me know,

00:52:46 at the end of the day it does machine learn. It does use an algorithm. It does try if it sees a certain segment of people clicking, it tries to go find people like that segment of flicking. But if we can point it in the right direction at the very beginning, the better direction, which is why normally what the best things are,

00:53:03 is a lookalike of a buyer list. Because if it’s a buyer list, like that’s your best audience, those are people who are actually buying your product, but you do need several thousand of them. I’d say like, you know, if you have 5,000 people in a buyers list, so maybe VIP buyer list, maybe all the people who have ever bought off your site.

00:53:19 Yeah. Maybe I’ll do that. Yeah. Cause the VIP list is a lot smaller than the broader list. And so if I just do I all my add to carts too. So if you have an add to cart event, firing all the people added to cart, cause maybe you have like a few hundred buyers, but you probably have a few thousand add to carts.

00:53:36 And then you have probably tens of thousands of website visitors. So I would test a 1% look alike of each step in your funnel because obviously it’s going to be more qualified as it goes down. But the data sets are going to be bigger as you go up. So the page views is going to be the most amount of visitors that could be several hundreds of thousands of people,

00:53:54 but it’s still people who visited your website. So they bid and that’s better than probably any type of detailed targeting interest group that Facebook could, could come up with. It’s probably going to be people who, you know, are actually interested in buying this piece of clothing while also being in the demographic you’re looking at. Yeah. And it’s picking up some people who are totally not related to Michael.

00:54:16 So one guy was like, I don’t want to see this. And he put like a GIF of like, like some fried bacon. And he was like, eat this. And I’m like, oh my God, That’s going to happen. I don’t use Facebook other than for work because this is what it is. And I have to see it across 30 different clients and go in and look for mean comments or rude comments or vulgarity and got to,

00:54:40 got to hide all the ads. And when they start getting enough negative comments, I have to remake it from scratch because eventually it’s just like, eventually if so many people negatively comment on your ad that Facebook starts judging you for it because Facebook’s whole thing is about a positive customer experience, a positive experience. And they kind of judge you for showing ads that are,

00:55:02 that are causing people to have a negative response. Even though there’s nothing you can do about it. It’s not like you’re, you know, really offending them, but it’s just part of the, the game we play. But don’t worry about that. That’s at like massive scale. I’m talking like I’m running a hundred thousand dollars a day to one creative and it’s getting a hundred negative comments a day at that point.

00:55:21 It’s like, you have to be on top of it. But No, we just get one every year with that. Some random dude or woman or whatever. But so I didn’t know that the algorithm picked up sentiment. So they pick up whether you like, or like, you know, I didn’t know the, Yep. So basically the, the algorithm picks up basically your entire browsing history.

00:55:44 So if you are on, you know, several other sites shopping for the same product, you’ll probably see lots of ads for those types of products in your Facebook. It used to be a lot more. Do you guys remember when you used to like, look, Google something, shopping for something. And then all of a sudden you’d see 20 ads for it on Facebook.

00:56:03 It’s not as that good anymore. We don’t see as much personalized advertising as we did because of all this data loss. They used to know like every single thing about us, it’s slowly like they’re learning. They’re able to learn less and less about us. So that’s why it’s great to use some site. Both the people who can use some type of data source at the beginning to like give Facebook algorithm that kick,

00:56:24 it needs of like, this is exactly who we want. These are our buyers. These are our people who added our, one of our products to our cart. Then it’s able to analyze all the data of those people and be like, okay, I have a good idea of who you’re talking about. Now I can go find people like this. Okay.

00:56:40 This is a good start. I’ll keep you posted and see what I can call from the lead force. And The leading horse gives you a seven-day free trial. Like I said, it isn’t being like $300 a month after that. But I would recommend like if you have the time and you know, for the next week, you’re going to really use it,

00:57:01 then sign up for it and start today and start testing it and learning it that way you can run a test in a week. And if it works really good and maybe you make a, you know, it works, it’s your best converting thing. Then maybe you decide to pay for it and pay for it. What they do is they just remove your access to that audience.

00:57:18 So you won’t be able to use that audience anymore, but it’s not like one of those things where like, if you don’t cancel it within seven days, they just start billing you, you don’t even have to enter your credit card, just sign up. So as the time, everyone on the call, as long as you have like an idea, a concept of like,

00:57:33 I want to build an audience of this types of people and here’s some groups I want to check out. Here’s some Instagram accounts when you get to that point and your research is done. That’s when I would start the trial. And then like even watch like some of the tutorials about it on YouTube or on their website, whatever resources they have. So you can learn how to operate in it.

00:57:52 So you really don’t waste time in that trial because you really just want to stress test lean and forced to see if it will work for you. And if not, then it’s not that, you know, it’s just the time. It’s not like you paid software and it didn’t work, but we are seeing it work for us. And especially in some of those,

00:58:08 those niche areas where you can’t find the right targeting. Cool. All right. Sounds good. Always a pleasure, Andrew. Yes, of course everyone have a good weekend. We’ll talk next week. Alrighty. Bye-bye.